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 DOTA 2

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SnowTau
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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:53 pm

Starting to learn Lone Druid, that first game with him I got 2 triple kills, and second game just then I did fairly decently, getting a few multi-kills, he's got such good survivability and chase, fun to play. Just gotta learn to micro a little, the bear often seems to get stuck behind slow ass Druid during a chase.

I also just watched a tournament game in which TA didn't get banned, but picked. Kinda depressing to watch really, showed just how op she was. She went 26-1, and that death wasn't till 14 kills when she was low health tanking Rosh. So broken.

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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:04 am

Lone druid is the bees knees mayneee; so much fun, nearly up their with invoker just because of how much skill is involved to play him really well. lone and morph are the only 2 heroes i've truely 1v5 carried with Razz. and yeah supposedly the move mechanics aren't as easy to micro sylla + the bear properly as opposed to dota 1 which is why phase is a general pickup for the bear, I always do it as well, just because the chase potential is so much greater imo.

I assume you're talking about the iG vs MTW game right ? For starters any hero can appear broken in the right hands, its like watching dendi's tinker play, or 430's invoker, or for this example 430's TA. The game wasn't also very serious either, iG so far have been playing completely standard and with MTW guaranteed a losers bracket position, synderen decided to throw out some weird bans (all bans were aimed at zhou, the hard carry for iG) to force iG to play different, and make them show what else they have on offer, and he did exactly that, and not only is iG one of the most legendary teams in the dota scene, but 430 is also renown for his TA play .... and this was a great example as to why Razz.

edit: oh and it was practically over when TA got 4 kills at top lane, was silly for MTW to continue fighting with 430 running around with a DD rune still.
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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:42 am

Maybe so, but when some guy we play with called Davo can pretty much do consistently decent with TA, I know she's fucking OP.

And yeah phase boots on the bear is great, just tab phase tab and he runs straight through you Wink

Also I'm currently watching a game, and apparently 5 necrobooks is a viable strategy, to the point where it's almost OP.

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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:01 pm

SnowTau wrote:
Maybe so, but when some guy we play with called Davo can pretty much do consistently decent with TA, I know she's fucking OP.

But thats like calling invoker OP, because when I play him, I pretty much always do well. I have a friend, who's shit, but only plays lycan, and stomps most games (at low MMR), doesn't make him OP. Also have another friend that plays ursa and does the same, doesn't make usra OP, its all about the right hero in the right hands. LightOfHeaven makes chen seem OP, but the hero definitely isn't.
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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:13 pm

JRizzy1 wrote:
I have a friend, who's shit, but only plays lycan, and stomps most games (at low MMR), doesn't make him OP.
Yes, it does.

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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:05 pm

jase619 wrote:
JRizzy1 wrote:
I have a friend, who's shit, but only plays lycan, and stomps most games (at low MMR), doesn't make him OP.
Yes, it does.
This. If someone who sucks does consistently well with a particular hero especially when you know they're shit with most other heroes, then that hero is clearly giving them the advantage (of course there is also the factor of simply practicing with a certain hero too and getting really good at them). There's a reason Lycan is almost always first pick/ban.

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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:12 pm

yeah, but the fact he's tier 1 doesn't make him broken, it means he's an effective pick for a large amount of situations. Lycan is an easy pubstomper ... hence why he appears OP, but any fucking team with brains and a support will shit on him. Lycan with a shit early game, can't do anything, and lycan is strongest at mid game. and gets easily out carried late game. The reason he does consistently is because of low MMR; people at low MMR .... dont make proper picks and dont play proper playstyles, hence why its easy for him, as a lycan, who is a pubstomper, to get crazily out of hand.

You might as well be saying, naga, furion, dark seer, lycan, rubick, leshrac, chen, lone, invoker and veno are all broken and OP. Just because they are strong effective picks doesnt make them OP. By the sounds of it, you guys just think pubstompers are OP (lycan, TA), everyone can be countered, it just takes the right mind
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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:36 pm

JRizzy1 wrote:
yeah, but the fact he's tier 1 doesn't make him broken, it means he's an effective pick for a large amount of situations. Lycan is an easy pubstomper ... hence why he appears OP, but any fucking team with brains and a support will shit on him. Lycan with a shit early game, can't do anything, and lycan is strongest at mid game. and gets easily out carried late game. The reason he does consistently is because of low MMR; people at low MMR .... dont make proper picks and dont play proper playstyles, hence why its easy for him, as a lycan, who is a pubstomper, to get crazily out of hand.

You might as well be saying, naga, furion, dark seer, lycan, rubick, leshrac, chen, lone, invoker and veno are all broken and OP. Just because they are strong effective picks doesnt make them OP. By the sounds of it, you guys just think pubstompers are OP (lycan, TA), everyone can be countered, it just takes the right mind
Nope, Lycan is OP. We played against one who was out of the game for the first five minutes - literally. 300 seconds.

And he came back and owned us.

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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:50 pm

jase619 wrote:
JRizzy1 wrote:
yeah, but the fact he's tier 1 doesn't make him broken, it means he's an effective pick for a large amount of situations. Lycan is an easy pubstomper ... hence why he appears OP, but any fucking team with brains and a support will shit on him. Lycan with a shit early game, can't do anything, and lycan is strongest at mid game. and gets easily out carried late game. The reason he does consistently is because of low MMR; people at low MMR .... dont make proper picks and dont play proper playstyles, hence why its easy for him, as a lycan, who is a pubstomper, to get crazily out of hand.

You might as well be saying, naga, furion, dark seer, lycan, rubick, leshrac, chen, lone, invoker and veno are all broken and OP. Just because they are strong effective picks doesnt make them OP. By the sounds of it, you guys just think pubstompers are OP (lycan, TA), everyone can be countered, it just takes the right mind
Nope, Lycan is OP. We played against one who was out of the game for the first five minutes - literally. 300 seconds.

And he came back and owned us.

match ID please, and explain what you did to prevent lycan from carrying.

edit: lol just realised, you shouldn't even be mad, seeing as the game didn't count Razz (if what your saying is true that is)
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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:13 pm

JRizzy1 wrote:
jase619 wrote:
JRizzy1 wrote:
yeah, but the fact he's tier 1 doesn't make him broken, it means he's an effective pick for a large amount of situations. Lycan is an easy pubstomper ... hence why he appears OP, but any fucking team with brains and a support will shit on him. Lycan with a shit early game, can't do anything, and lycan is strongest at mid game. and gets easily out carried late game. The reason he does consistently is because of low MMR; people at low MMR .... dont make proper picks and dont play proper playstyles, hence why its easy for him, as a lycan, who is a pubstomper, to get crazily out of hand.

You might as well be saying, naga, furion, dark seer, lycan, rubick, leshrac, chen, lone, invoker and veno are all broken and OP. Just because they are strong effective picks doesnt make them OP. By the sounds of it, you guys just think pubstompers are OP (lycan, TA), everyone can be countered, it just takes the right mind
Nope, Lycan is OP. We played against one who was out of the game for the first five minutes - literally. 300 seconds.

And he came back and owned us.

match ID please, and explain what you did to prevent lycan from carrying.

edit: lol just realised, you shouldn't even be mad, seeing as the game didn't count Razz (if what your saying is true that is)
I warded their neutral creep, he walked around for a few minutes, thought it was a glitch, left the game, came back once the game was at like 5-6 minutes...and caught up on levels and owned us.

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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:39 pm

jase619 wrote:
JRizzy1 wrote:
jase619 wrote:
JRizzy1 wrote:
yeah, but the fact he's tier 1 doesn't make him broken, it means he's an effective pick for a large amount of situations. Lycan is an easy pubstomper ... hence why he appears OP, but any fucking team with brains and a support will shit on him. Lycan with a shit early game, can't do anything, and lycan is strongest at mid game. and gets easily out carried late game. The reason he does consistently is because of low MMR; people at low MMR .... dont make proper picks and dont play proper playstyles, hence why its easy for him, as a lycan, who is a pubstomper, to get crazily out of hand.

You might as well be saying, naga, furion, dark seer, lycan, rubick, leshrac, chen, lone, invoker and veno are all broken and OP. Just because they are strong effective picks doesnt make them OP. By the sounds of it, you guys just think pubstompers are OP (lycan, TA), everyone can be countered, it just takes the right mind
Nope, Lycan is OP. We played against one who was out of the game for the first five minutes - literally. 300 seconds.

And he came back and owned us.

match ID please, and explain what you did to prevent lycan from carrying.

edit: lol just realised, you shouldn't even be mad, seeing as the game didn't count Razz (if what your saying is true that is)
I warded their neutral creep, he walked around for a few minutes, thought it was a glitch, left the game, came back once the game was at like 5-6 minutes...and caught up on levels and owned us.

i meant what you did to stop his farm after he came back.
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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:06 pm

JRizzy1 wrote:
jase619 wrote:
JRizzy1 wrote:
jase619 wrote:
JRizzy1 wrote:
yeah, but the fact he's tier 1 doesn't make him broken, it means he's an effective pick for a large amount of situations. Lycan is an easy pubstomper ... hence why he appears OP, but any fucking team with brains and a support will shit on him. Lycan with a shit early game, can't do anything, and lycan is strongest at mid game. and gets easily out carried late game. The reason he does consistently is because of low MMR; people at low MMR .... dont make proper picks and dont play proper playstyles, hence why its easy for him, as a lycan, who is a pubstomper, to get crazily out of hand.

You might as well be saying, naga, furion, dark seer, lycan, rubick, leshrac, chen, lone, invoker and veno are all broken and OP. Just because they are strong effective picks doesnt make them OP. By the sounds of it, you guys just think pubstompers are OP (lycan, TA), everyone can be countered, it just takes the right mind
Nope, Lycan is OP. We played against one who was out of the game for the first five minutes - literally. 300 seconds.

And he came back and owned us.

match ID please, and explain what you did to prevent lycan from carrying.

edit: lol just realised, you shouldn't even be mad, seeing as the game didn't count Razz (if what your saying is true that is)
I warded their neutral creep, he walked around for a few minutes, thought it was a glitch, left the game, came back once the game was at like 5-6 minutes...and caught up on levels and owned us.

i meant what you did to stop his farm after he came back.
We warded his jungle, he didn't even try to lane. Just derped around wondering where the fuck the creep are. EVENTUALLY he gave up and came to lane, and yeah, still hard to take the fucker down. He caught up so quick too... sick of his shit. I think every one just needs to buy ghost scepters / blade mail in games against him but in pubs, not gunna happen, so he just fucks everyone.

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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:35 am

well if you don't shut him down then what do you expect ? lycan is such a quick farmer and a great pusher = he gets gold piss easily. Unless you were actively trying to stop him from getting fat; or had a better carry / player farming at the same time, then a loss is what's going to happen. I aint even mad when we get raped by a lycan / lifestealer / sylla, cus it only ever happens when your team is retarded and doesn't try to shut him down. In saying that, you dont want to invest so heavily into shutting him down that you put yourself behind, had that last night where we had the lycan and they went so hard in the first 10 mins to shut him down, that they ended up just putting themselves behind too far to win. Was by far the most active early game I've ever participated in to protect dat der lycan haha.
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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:34 am

Managed to shut TA down for once, was playing Lone Druid and rushed a Radiance on my bear to fuck with her refraction, she got fucked up, but the rest of my team except one was retarded sadly. Also it was really weird at first, but I was playing with a Skeleton king and we both went Dire top lane, he said go lane at first, and I was planning to anyway, but he went to the jungle and I solo laned against two heroes, and I fucked them up. Getting really quick levels was a huge help, and when I got level 3 bear I could actually kill them, whenever our creep wave was about to move up I'd go for an entangle on one, if I got it, they were pretty much fucked. After the first time it happened they were pretty scared of the bear so I got free farm in a 1v2 lane haha.

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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:29 pm

JRizzy1 wrote:
well if you don't shut him down then what do you expect ? lycan is such a quick farmer and a great pusher = he gets gold piss easily. Unless you were actively trying to stop him from getting fat; or had a better carry / player farming at the same time, then a loss is what's going to happen. I aint even mad when we get raped by a lycan / lifestealer / sylla, cus it only ever happens when your team is retarded and doesn't try to shut him down. In saying that, you dont want to invest so heavily into shutting him down that you put yourself behind, had that last night where we had the lycan and they went so hard in the first 10 mins to shut him down, that they ended up just putting themselves behind too far to win. Was by far the most active early game I've ever participated in to protect dat der lycan haha.
We did shut him down. He was out of the game for a whole 5 minutes. If you can spend 5 minutes afk and come back and own...there's something seriously wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:58 pm

jase619 wrote:
JRizzy1 wrote:
well if you don't shut him down then what do you expect ? lycan is such a quick farmer and a great pusher = he gets gold piss easily. Unless you were actively trying to stop him from getting fat; or had a better carry / player farming at the same time, then a loss is what's going to happen. I aint even mad when we get raped by a lycan / lifestealer / sylla, cus it only ever happens when your team is retarded and doesn't try to shut him down. In saying that, you dont want to invest so heavily into shutting him down that you put yourself behind, had that last night where we had the lycan and they went so hard in the first 10 mins to shut him down, that they ended up just putting themselves behind too far to win. Was by far the most active early game I've ever participated in to protect dat der lycan haha.
We did shut him down. He was out of the game for a whole 5 minutes. If you can spend 5 minutes afk and come back and own...there's something seriously wrong.

you shut him down ... and he was out of the game for 5 minutes ... then he got free farm.... nuff said lol. As I said lycans one of the fastest farmers (due to wolves) should never be giving free farm and I'm also assuming you guys didn't get to capitalize on that free 5 minutes or something, for him to still be able to come back and be effective.
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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:09 pm

JRizzy1 wrote:
jase619 wrote:
JRizzy1 wrote:
well if you don't shut him down then what do you expect ? lycan is such a quick farmer and a great pusher = he gets gold piss easily. Unless you were actively trying to stop him from getting fat; or had a better carry / player farming at the same time, then a loss is what's going to happen. I aint even mad when we get raped by a lycan / lifestealer / sylla, cus it only ever happens when your team is retarded and doesn't try to shut him down. In saying that, you dont want to invest so heavily into shutting him down that you put yourself behind, had that last night where we had the lycan and they went so hard in the first 10 mins to shut him down, that they ended up just putting themselves behind too far to win. Was by far the most active early game I've ever participated in to protect dat der lycan haha.
We did shut him down. He was out of the game for a whole 5 minutes. If you can spend 5 minutes afk and come back and own...there's something seriously wrong.

you shut him down ... and he was out of the game for 5 minutes ... then he got free farm.... nuff said lol. As I said lycans one of the fastest farmers (due to wolves) should never be giving free farm and I'm also assuming you guys didn't get to capitalize on that free 5 minutes or something, for him to still be able to come back and be effective.
If five minutes of downtime while everyone else is levelling doesn't put you out of the game, nothing can. We would have to kill him like ten times to be close to the level of stopping power that 5 minutes AFK gives.

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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:45 pm

giving lycan free farm in the jungle is like giving an AM free farm at the 15 minute point, by then battle furies up, and they both farm jungle ridiculously fast is what im saying (lycan does it faster im pretty sure). Anyway i've been digressing to much in my posts, the point is, is that you guys were at fault for losing that, nothing to do with lycan being broken or OP. This game is unbelievably balanced compared to the majority of other games.

edit: was just reading through the posts and somehow I missed this.

SnowTau wrote:
There's a reason Lycan is almost always first pick/ban.

rofl, thats the stupidest point ever. The reason he's top tier is because of how effective he is, naga gets more bans than him, and shes not broken or OP, if anything she's just as easy to shut down. Dark seers top pick / ban as well .... not because hes broken, but because he's fucking effective. Go ask any drafter or captain on a good dota team, and they'll tell you they ban picks like that, because they want to force the other team into a playstyle they want to play not because any specific hero is fucking broken or OP, if they truly thought that, the hero would be nerfed and the patch delivered out in a matter of days, i can guarantee it. It's just like any other effective in the game, if you let them through the draft stage, its because you have a plan against it. I've seen plenty of teams let lycan through the banning stage, misleading the other team into picking him, only to get fucking raped and shut down, because they know what they're doing.
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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:38 pm

How would you shut a Lycan down? I'm honestly interested, will have to try it next time I play against him. You can keep ganking him I guess, but he's fucking fast with that ult, and you have to be mindful that you aren't letting others free-farm too much while you're doing it. Warding their jungle is also a choice but you need wards elsewhere too and there is that stock limit. Not sure if Razors static links works while he's ulting, but if so that's a definite choice. Just now we played against an Ursa, I'm used to him stomping bitches, but I played Razor and absolutely fucked his shit just by making him useless with static link hahaha. And I also just went 21-2-? with Lone Druid. There was a TA on the other team, radiance again of course and just annoyed the shit out of her, useless Q, useless meld (cept bonus damage ofc). Getting better at this counter shit. Still struggle with Lycan though. He can lane well too, those crits on his wolves are a pain in the ass early game.

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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:01 am

Well its most important you have decent players to start with Razz from there, ward jungle, have a dedicated roamer / heavy ganker if anything, making sure whoever that is gets backup whenever they are going in for lycan. Freefarm shouldnt be a problem for other lanes, because A) you should also have a carry whos getting free farm and B) their carry should be getting ganked / heavily pressured due to your lineup. In terms of picks, people like naga, FV, beastmaster, lone druid Wink, enigma, bane, or any other hardcarry generally, he gets outcarried very easily during the late game, and as long as your team can hold and hinder his mid game, you should be fine most the time. In terms of items, euls, ghost scepter for the lulz hahaha. Even CC items are helpful, BKB can be easily baited and the duration waited, its all about forcing them to fight when they aren't comfortable, and a lycan that has already used BKB, or tried to ulti just before, is easy meat.

Also natures sprout is decent, depends if he has quelling or tangos, and now that i think of it, double basher on sylla + bear would be fucking lols and combined with entangle would rape him.

I was watching one of your games last night as sylla (only watched a little bit), had a pretty interesting item build Razz, i understood rushing the BTS I suppose, but vanguard on bear had me stumped haha.
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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:19 am

Yeahh.... not a good game to watch. Was thinking lets make the bear more tanky! Turns out it was a complete waste since the cost is like 10x that of stout shield only to block 2x as much damage. And by the time I had it the bears at the point at which when it's on low HP it's off cooldown. Generally I go Phase+BoT, 2x Skullbashers and an Assault Cuirass. Last game I went radiance first because of TA, but somehow still ended up with 2x skullbashers and an AC as well, so much farm that game. Sometimes I go vlads to Rosh early, but it's probably a waste really. It could be done without it, and I don't really need the lifesteal that bad I guess. Mask of madness could possibly work well with the skullbasher though. And for some reason I can't figure out what BTS stands for.

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JRizzy1
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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:17 am

oh i said BTS insead of BoT Razz my bad, yeah I could tell you were experimenting Razz double skullbasher is the fucking shit man, so much fun to be had, and radiance on the bear is so good at keeping lanes pushed and shit.
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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:46 am

Fucking lol'ed at #10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BBkeXvveIk&list=UUNRQ-DWUXf4UVN9L31Y9f3Q&index=5&feature=plcp (Embed is broken, links to their Rubick guide for no reason.)

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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:39 pm

That was all sorts of fucked up. 10 was cool, 9 was fucking amazing and the rest were pretty shit. Number 6, I have no idea what was special about it at all.

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PostSubject: Re: DOTA 2   Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:25 pm

9 was amazing, should have been number 1 I think.

Just had an intense as fuck game. They raxed twice before we got a single tier 3. I started pushing as much as possible and roshing whenever possible. As usual I had a team of fucking retards (and the Anti-Mage kept calling all of us noobs and that we sucked, even though he had no farm and was feeding the most, always seems to be the AM's), and again there was a Templar Assassin on the other team fucking our shit (cept mah radiance bear of course) , and a drow hitting insane crits + a manta. I just kept trying to go where they weren't, eventually I took all tier 1/2 towers, and took the 3rd+rax of the bot and mid, and took one of their tier 4's. We were close to being able to take the last tower BUT NO. Fucking retarded team goes "b!" as usual, and someone fucks off to push top for NO REASON.

Luckily, their whole team runs to kill them, I just fucking sprint into their base past all the creep, take the tier 4 from near full health, start taking the ancient, then tiny comes, but he's too scared on his own, then drow comes with her crits and I just fucking ignored her and kept bashing away at the ancient, nearly died, but nope, CHEESE MOTHER FUCKER, and finished off the ancient, getting close to dying. SO INTENSE. Meanwhile my teams still derping around up our half of the map, fucking idiots.


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